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Chen Zongying spelling

Hi there, I and another editor are discussing whether Chen Zongying should be moved to "Chen Congying". I would love additional input from editors more familiar with Chinese to English transliteration/romanization on whether the move should happen or not. ForsythiaJo (talk) 18:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Possible machine translated name for Lake Seema

This is a short article created by a student of mine, translated from zh wiki. I worry she might have invented the name (with machine translation); I am not getting any non-wikipedia hits for that. Could someone check whether it needs renaming? TIA _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:57, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, looks like an erroneous machine translation to me. Unless there are reliable sources using the spelling "Seema", it should be moved to Xima Lake or maybe Lake Xima. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 15:52, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Moved after negative findings for transliteration as "Seema". Folly Mox (talk) 01:42, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

@Folly Mox @Mx. Granger Thanks. Can someone double check GPS coordinates? I am not seeing any lake (body of water...) in the maps that I open... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:48, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, this is interesting: the coordinates do seem correct, and this 2015 government report (25mb pdf) does show a reservoir at the location specified (p 162), as an extension or something of the nearby larger Hongyashan Reservoir (zh:紅崖山水庫). It also mentions that due to some problems, the Xima reservoir was only actually used a few times immediately following its construction, and photos on the following p 163 show that it was not a body of water in 2015 (gmaps's satellite layer seems to corroborate this; unsure of its recency).

Unless I've misread or totally overlooked something, this lake isn't.

Piotrus, any way you could convince your student (if still enroled in your course) to translate zh:紅崖山水庫 instead? I'd propose merging Lake Xima into it, since I don't believe Lake Xima is independently notable, even as a former geographical feature. As it stands I'm not sure there's a valid merge target, although I haven't checked Minqing County and have to go soon. Folly Mox (talk) 14:57, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

@Folly Mox Interesting research. Sadly, the student's motivation to do anything after the course finished is close to zero (plus students in Mainland China have to use VPN to edit Wiki, which is extra demotivating). Is there anyone here interested in geography of China who could comment more, or translate that other, short article so we could merge and redirect this? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:04, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Bumping this thread because I forgot about this, even to the point that I forgot to correct "Minqing County" above to Minqin County, which I noticed almost immediately. Folly Mox (talk) 13:59, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor#Requested move 27 December 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Mausoleum of the First Qin Emperor#Requested move 27 December 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Remsense ‥ 论 05:23, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Highway patrols?

When i visited sichuan a week ago i noticed some police cars were marked with "Sichuan Public Security Department Highway patrol" but i don't see much information on chinese provincial highway patrol agencies on wikipedia.

Can someone do some more digging into this subject?

Will also post on wikiproject law enforcement. Thehistorianisaac (talk) 15:25, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Update: Found an article on Baidu encyclopedia on the exact agency Thehistorianisaac (talk) 15:28, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Korea-related article bounty

X-posting here.

I'm offering a $150+ reward for each top-importance WikiProject Korea article improved to WP:GOODARTICLE status. A number of these articles are directly or indirectly related to China, so figured I'd post here too.

There's some limitations to this though; for details see Wikipedia:Reward board#Top importance WikiProject Korea articles and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea#Article bounty. seefooddiet (talk) 10:40, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Can anyone finish this draft about a Chinese video game franchise?

Draft:Roco Kingdom (game). Abandoned by the student creator, since the course finished. We have three very bad, AfD-asking, articles on related media (animated films) that may be deleted without redirecting if there is no main article for this to be redirected to: Roco Kingdom: The Desire of Dragon, Roco Kingdom 3 and Roco Kingdom 4. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:03, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Most information comes from other wikis, forums, app stores, Tencent itself, or game review websites such as TapTap, which would not really address the problem. Vacosea (talk) 23:41, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

@Vacosea There are no RS to even write a stub about it? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:37, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

There are a few Xinhua and other sources unaffiliated with Tencent so that might work. Vacosea (talk) 22:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

@Vacosea Any chance you could stub something about it using them? Not sure if much from the draft is usable, but I keep thinking this warrants some entry on en wiki. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:57, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

It turns out that Xinhua coverage is mostly about derivative works. I will do what I can. Vacosea (talk) 20:30, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

The Scarecrow (children's book)

Just thought I'd ask; has anyone got access to a pre-1930 printing of The Scarecrow, maybe through a university library? All of the covers online are from the 80s or later, and the article is currently unillustrated.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 11:54, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

"Qingyun Wang" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Qingyun Wang has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 January 23 § Qingyun Wang until a consensus is reached. 65.92.246.77 (talk) 23:24, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Question about Chinese names

Hello!

I am currently writing an article, and one of my references is authored by somebody called Li Yifan. I know that the Chinese naming convention is different than the western one, so I'm just wondering what is the surname and what is the first name here.

Thank you, --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 12:35, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

"Li" is the surname. Chinese surname may be edifying in this regard, but I haven't looked at it recently. Thank you for asking! Folly Mox (talk) 13:57, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Mao Zedong lead photo

Editors are encouraged to propose and discuss the suitability of candidate images at Talk:Mao Zedong#Lead photo. Remsense ‥ 论 23:50, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Article from The World of Chinese magazine

Resolved

 – Bought it with my own money. $36 for 2 pages... worth it! QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 17:04, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

• Liu, Jue (2014-03-01). "Shamate Alecks". The World of Chinese. p. 72–74.

Hello!

I know this isn't the resource exchange, and I have also asked there, but I thought my chances here might be higher in case somebody happens to have access to this article.

I need this article for my draft, Draft:Shamate (yes it's currently empty but I have written a lot, just haven't published it yet)

I found it on ResearchGate, but there's no PDF, and I found it on Ingenta too, but it costs $30 to access.

Thanks, QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 14:33, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Machine translation

What is the quality of Chinese → English machine translation, and which service is the best?

I've considered Google Translate, DeepL, and Baidu Fanyi.

Thanks, QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 18:03, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

I don't have an answer for the second question, but from everything I've seen, the quality is pretty scattershot. Text similar to modern natural speech and other informal language is accurate for the most part. Anything more formal or archaic or uh highfalutin— those will really confuse google translate at least (no experience with the other two directly, although I'm sure I've seen Baidu's product's output unattributed in the wild). Folly Mox (talk) 18:45, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

I have been using GPT for the past year and find it much better than Google and DeepL. If you give the right prompt and instructions to GPT, it can come up with a tone and style that caters to your specific project. I am using the free version. TheIntrospectorsfacts (talk) 21:51, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

TheIntrospectorsfacts, are you able to provide an example Chinese language source snippet alongside ChatGPT's proposed translation of the text? Maybe participants at this venue could offer better feedback with some examples. Folly Mox (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

It's best for the user to play with GPT for his personalized project, where he can direct GPT to adopt an informal, formal, colloquial tone, set the contexts, or adjust word choices. GPT sometimes also comes with multiple versions of translations and let the user pick his/her preference, so it will cater further translation to the user's style. GPT is a more dynamic translation tool, and the outcome is very much shaped by the interactive process between the user and the tool. Hope this helps. TheIntrospectorsfacts (talk) 21:29, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Dispute at LG Cup (Go) involving China and Korea

The LG Cup is a competition which had a recent controversy between China and South Korea over the rules and refereeing. The question is, how should the final score be summarized? Please join Talk:LG Cup (Go) and weigh in on the dispute. Adumbrativus (talk) 08:19, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Ban Liang#Requested move 1 February 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Ban Liang#Requested move 1 February 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Remsense ‥ 论 01:41, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Chinese folk flute music

Happy new year. This stub has been unsourced for 20 years, and tagged so for 15 years. Please find and add reliable sources to this article. Bearian (talk) 05:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)

Question about names in citations

Moved from Wikipedia:Teahouse § Question about names in citations

 – QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 12:18, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello!

I'm trying to cite [https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1007272 this article] by Veronica Wang Jingyi, but I don't know what to put for the <code>|last=</code> and <code>|first=</code> parameter, because I think that "Wang" is the surname of the author.

So do I format it like <code>|last= Wang |first= Veronica Jingyi</code> like so:

{{refbegin}}
{{cite magazine |last=Wang |first=Veronica Jingyi |date=2016-07-28 |title=How China's White-Collar Workers Are Co-Opting Blue-Collar Punk |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1007272 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}
{{refend}}

or do I simply use the <code>|author=</code> parameter like so:

{{refbegin}}
{{cite magazine |author=Veronica Wang Jingyi |date=2016-07-28 |title=How China's White-Collar Workers Are Co-Opting Blue-Collar Punk |url=https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1007272 |magazine=[[Sixth Tone]] |location= |publisher= |access-date=2025-02-02}}
{{refend}}

Thanks, and sorry, because I am really not accustomed to Chinese naming conventions... <span style="border-radius:99q;padding:0 7q;background:#103;border:3q solid #FBF">[[User:QuickQuokka|<span style="color:#FBF">'''QuickQuokka'''</span>]]</span> <sup>[⁠[[User talk:QuickQuokka|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/QuickQuokka|contribs]]]</sup> 11:43, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
:Hi {{u|QuickQuokka}}. You might want to try asking about this at [[:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China]] because most likely it's something that someone else has brought up before. Perhaps even check that talk page's archive because there could be something there about it. There's also [[:Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese)]] which provides some guidance that might be helpful. -- [[User:Marchjuly|Marchjuly]] ([[User talk:Marchjuly|talk]]) 12:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

QuickQuokka, either of those options is correct (and Wang is indeed the surname, unless it is Wāng). Using |last= |first= results in slightly cleaner metadata and facilitates potential future conversion to Shortened footnotes, if you care about either of those things. You could also use |last=Wang |first=Veronica Jingyi |author-mask=Veronica Jingyi Wang for all the benefits except tidy wikicode.

(As an aside, it's pretty clever how the author has centralised her surname, making both her English and Chinese names sound natural in the sequence.)

On a completely separate tangent, do be aware of WP:SIXTHTONE. This article is on a cultural topic so should be fine, but the publication is considered generally unreliable for political topics.

Figuring out someone's surname is not always super cut and dry, and I've sometimes had to find an author's actual Chinese name written in Chinese in order to determine which is which, since the sequence can vary across publications. List of common Chinese surnames might be helpful for you to check against, or even Template:100 most common surnames in mainland China, Template:101–200 Most Common Family Names in mainland China, or Category:Individual Chinese surnames. Folly Mox (talk) 15:10, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

@Folly Mox: Thank you! Very helpful! I will take your advice to heart. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 15:12, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:100 most common surnames in mainland China

Template:100 most common surnames in mainland China has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Folly Mox (talk) 15:27, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

Infobox Chinese

Hello!

I recently discovered the template {{Chinese}}, where you can put Chinese romanizations in the template. However, I then soon discovered that on Wiktionary, they have a template called {{zh-pron}} (interwiki link), which automatically creates the other romanizations given the Pinyin. E.g. if I write

{{zh-pron
|m=Zhōngguó    <!-- m = Mandarin -->
}}

it automatically generates something like this, with Pinyin Bopomofo, Tongyong Pinyin, Wade-Giles, Yale, Gwoyeu Romatzyh, the Palladius system, and IPA transliterations.

As for dialects, it supports Mandarin, Sichuanese, Dungan, Cantonese, Taishanese, Gan, Hakka, Jin, Northern Min, Middle Chinese, Eastern Min, Hokkien, Teochew, Leizhou Min, Old Chinese, Puxian Min, Southern Pinghua, Wu, Xiang, Loudi Xiang, and Hengyang Xiang

I was wondering whether something like this could be added to the {{Chinese}} template, and whether it would be wanted or needed. QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 16:58, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

In general, {{Infobox Chinese}} needs to be entirely rewritten. I am not entirely aware of the flexibility of the Wiktionary system, but it's surely something worth considering during such a rewrite. One point to remember is that Wikipedia is not a dictionary, as such, we would still require editors to manually specify which relevant forms should appear in each case.Remsense ‥ 论 19:07, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Duplicating and localising all the dependencies of wikt:Module:zh-pron seems like a tremendous amount of work balanced against a potential benefit that's really more in Wiktionary's remit than ours.

This feels lazy to say, but I don't really want to deal with the consequences of things like

• Putting an asterisk * before an initial blocks lenition, such as 瑞士 and 茉莉花茶.
• Putting an exclamation mark ! after the syllable blocks rhyme change, such as 更更.
• Putting a backslash \ after the syllable indicates that diminutive tone sandhi should be invoked for that syllable, such as 鍋鍋.
• Pronunciations that cannot be inferred from BUC are indicated using a greater-than symbol > followed by the actual pronunciation, such as 食 and 茉莉.

This is just the documentation for Bàng-uâ-cê, and definitely more of a dictionary thing than an encyclopaedia thing. Also for almost any given article, more than like three or four different pronunciations are firmly in cruft territory. Folly Mox (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 6 February 2025: Monkey King > Sun Wukong

An editor has requested that Monkey King be moved to Sun Wukong, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Cold Season (talk) 12:00, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

High-speed rail in China-related RfC?

High-speed rail in China was redirected a few hours ago by an IP to Taiwan High Speed Rail. I can't find any such RfC and while I've asked the IP this particular address is shared and has only 5 edits, so I'm worried I won't get a response. Does anyone here have any idea what RfC this could be referring to? Given the subject area I'd like to be very sure this is actually following consensus. Rusalkii (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I would be very surprised if this wasn't vandalism. _dk (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, I kind of suspected shenanigans, but it was a sufficiently weird edit summary I figured I'd ask. Looks like it's been reverted, anyway. Rusalkii (talk) 22:37, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Chen Jiongming article needs improvement

A large amount of information, particularly everything after about 1920, was recently removed from the article on Chen Jiongming by User:Czar, with WP:TNT as a rationale. I agree that verifiability is important, though this has left the article with an incomplete narrative, since there is now no information on Chen's split with Sun Yat-sen in 1922, the rest of his life, nor his political legacy. The article also currently relies almost entirely on a single source, so a general re-write is probably in order. — Goszei (talk) 23:23, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Political ideology templates

I am fielding a request for a third opinion from Guotaian regarding their dispute with ProKMT. The core disagreement is about the scope and structure of political ideology templates related to China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. The two editors' discussion is sprawled across four different talk pages. I am posting my response here because, for the sake of sanity, there should be one central place for discussing this, which is really one issue for Wikipedia, or perhaps a few very closely related, or overlapping issues. My recommendation is that the editors involved also place their comments here (or another central location, but here would probably be good, because it's an active place where other editors will notice this and contribute) and try to agree on some broader principles to implement across all four of the disputed templates. There are probably some experienced editors here who have dealt with this type of issue in the past who would like to assist. Since this is a fairly complex issue that directly or indirectly affects probably a large part of Wikipedia, this dispute goes beyond the scope of a third opinion request. If you and the other editors here aren't able to resolve this through discussion, I would suggest doing a request for comment (either here or at a suitable central location). Now, I will attempt (perhaps fairly inadequately) to summarize the substance of the actual dispute, but I would caution editors that this is a pretty complex discussion, and I might not have fully grasped it.

Definition of "China" in Templates
Should templates like Liberalism in China and Conservatism in China refer only to the People's Republic of China (PRC), or should they include Taiwan?

Inclusion of Pre-1949 Liberalism/Conservatism
Should political movements from the Republic of China (1912–1949) be categorized under modern "China" templates, or should they have separate historical templates?

Separate Templates vs. Combined Templates
Should Taiwan and Hong Kong have their own templates, or should they be integrated into Conservatism in China and Liberalism in China?

Naming of the Taiwan Conservatism Template
Should it be called "Conservatism in Taiwan" or "Conservatism in the Republic of China (Taiwan)"?

Inclusion of Pro-PRC Far-Right Groups in Taiwan’s Conservatism
Should groups like the Chinese Unification Promotion Party (CUPP) be included in Conservatism in Taiwan, even though they advocate for unification with the PRC, which might contradict traditional (ROC-aligned) conservatism?

Manuductive (talk) 03:29, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Guotaian ProKMT, Just looking at the WikiProject China front page, it's clear that on Wikipedia, the word China refers to the PRC, and Taiwan refers to the ROC. In that case, there should be separate templates for any topics that don't involve the PRC specifically. That means that anything in Hong Kong from 1997 onward would be part of the PRC, and movements that occurred on mainland territory under ROC rule prior to the PRC in fact belong to Taiwan. I guess you could have a separate one for Republic of China (1912–1949), but that seems unwieldy and unnecessary, since they are the same entity. Hong Kong is the most ambiguous issue, since part of the territory was under Qing dynasty sovereignty and leased to the British, and part of it was under full British sovereignty. And then the ROC overthrew the Qing dynasty (thus having sovereignty over the leased part) until they were pushed out of the region in 1949 by the PRC. As for whether the CUPP counts as "Conservative"... given that they are aligned with the Communist Party of China, I would say no, definitely not. Manuductive (talk) 05:17, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

References